A Tale Of Two Foodies

Dylan McGrath and Nick Munier, esteemed judges of the new RTÉ version of hit cookery competition show MasterChef Ireland, were both born on August 4. Although there’s a ten-year age gap betweeen the two Leos, the fiery Irish chef and the suave English maitre d’ have much more than just a birthday in common.

They’re both incredibly passionate about food and service. They both run their own establishments, just around the corner from each other in Dublin city centre. And both restaurateurs are also already relatively famous through previous TV work – McGrath for his controversial appearances on RTÉ’s Guerilla Gourmet (where he famously served a meal in the dark) and fly-on-the-wall doc The Pressure Cooker; Munier for his show-stealing turns on Marco Pierre White’s ITV series Hell’s Kitchen. While they come from very different backgrounds, they’ve both been in the business for practically all of their adult lives, building impressive CVs mostly through working at very high-end establishments.
Born in Dublin in 1977, the shaven-headed McGrath grew up on the Falls Road in Belfast at the height of the Troubles. Although not especially interested in food as a youth, at 18 he became a chef in the local Jury’s. Such was his obvious natural talent that he was promoted to head chef within three weeks. Having built up some valuable kitchen experience there, he took a serious paycut to go and work in Roscoffs, Northen Ireland’s only Michelin starred restaurant.

He eventually moved to England, where he spent three years at John Burton Race’s two-star Michelin restaurant, L’Oclolan, in Reading. Other prestigious placements followed (including a stint with Tom Aiken in Chelsea) before the young Irishman returned to Dublin to open his own place, Mint, in Ranelagh. Too small to survive the economic downturn (it had only 40 seats), the acclaimed restaurant closed in 2009, but not before the young chef – described by food critic Domini Kemp as a “creative genius” – had earned his first Michelin star in its kitchen. More recently, he opened ‘Rustic Stone Restaurant by Dylan McGrath’ on Georges Street.
Nick Munier was born in Kent in 1967. Having helped out his family in their guesthouse from a very young age, he went to train at a German catering school at age 16. The young Munier landed on his feet. His very first job after catering school was with the famous Roux Brothers in London, and he’s barely looked back since. Many prestigious gigs later, he went on to work in Ireland in places such as The K Club, Peacock Alley and The Clarence Hotel, as well as running a series of successful UK restaurants for Marco Pierre White. Along with chef Stephen Gibson, he now runs the hugely successful and highly rated Pichet Restaurant in Trinity Street, across the lane from the Hot Press offices.

This interview took place there at 11am on a Friday morning. There’s a poster on the wall advertising an exhibition of Munier's abstract art in a Dublin gallery (his fourth such show in the last decade), but none of his own originals are hanging. It’s not down to modesty. “They bloody well will be if they don’t sell at the exhibition!” he laughs. Like every great maitre d’, he immediately makes you feel comfortable.
Although Hot Press refused his kind offer of food, good coffee and freshly-squeezed orange juice was served with great aplomb. McGrath arrived fashionably late, having just come over from prepping Rustic Stone for the day.

OLAF TYARANSEN: Did you guys know each other before you were asked to do MasterChef Ireland?

NICK MUNIER: We did, yeah, we very nearly worked together before, didn’t we? So we were very much on the same wavelength and had huge respect for each other. I’d say we’ve known each other for the last four or five years now?

DYLAN McGRATH: Yeah. In the first six months of me being home in Ireland, we met and hit it off. We were both born on August 4. We’re both Leos. Nick worked in London at a very high-end restaurant for a long time, and then I suppose I had done the same at a very high gastronomic, Michelin level. So Nick doing front-of-house and me doing what I do in the kitchen, it was a kind of a natural marriage that we would quickly became friends, or at least understand each other to that degree. We met for dinner a few times, had a few drinks, talked about a few propositions. Obviously once Ireland went bang, with it went our dream, and everyone’s life changed. Nick went off in a different direction. He’s worked everywhere decent in Ireland, whereas I just did Mint in my years, and obviously then I had to close that. Nick reinvented and I reinvented – and here we are.

It’s a very bitchy business generally, so I’m wondering what’s the worst rumour that you’ve heard about each other?

DYLAN: Ah no (laughs). I wouldn’t be very bitchy or insecure about a lot of people. I’ve had everybody and their sister have a go at me since I came home. I don’t really retaliate much. I don’t really care what anyone thinks. Nick’s always been a friend. We’ve always got on. It’s just coincidence that threw us together, that we worked very well on camera together as well. I think the key to that MasterChef Ireland show is that you kind of have that little bit of respect for each other and professionally you get along. We do very well in Rustic Stone, Nick does very well here, and neither of us are competitive, we’re completely supportive of one another. In any way that we could help each other, we would, because of the professional respect, regardless of the TV programme. But the last couple of months we’ve had such a laugh making the show.

Is the shoot all done and dusted?

NICK: Three weeks ago was the last show. I don’t really think of it as a TV show, it’s more of a cooking competition being shown on TV. We didn’t want to contrive it, we wanted it to have a natural progression of its own. Obviously we’re in Ireland, we have to showcase Irish produce, and the talent we saw was very, very good. Dylan always said that it’s all about the influence, so it was very important for us to find that influence, so that people can take a journey and see what they can improve. Everyone can cook at some stage, but it’s about going to the next level. We had to teach them that, so it was very important for us to find the right restaurants in Ireland that could help these amateurs succeed to a certain level. That was the most important part of the process for us.

DYLAN: At the end of the day, anybody that got down to the final 16 could cook. Nick works the front-of-house but obviously still has a strong opinion about food and what he likes, same as myself, so we kind of, quite surprisingly, looked at food quite similarly. When something’s good, it’s good, when it’s not, it’s not. I mean, we had little bones here and there, we had to ask, ‘Do we have faith in this person that they can actually take it in, and adapt really quickly, and get better?’ That was really what you were looking for. And you kind of really rooted for them, you really wanted them to win, you wanted them to succeed, as opposed to just being critical for the sake of criticism. And you know that they’re amateurs so you have to be realistic about it. It’s not looking at it like, “Oh, it’s not three Michelin stars standard!” It’s about these people who came through the door not even really knowing if they were any good, and when you say, “Do you know what, that’s fucking really good!”, you see their confidence build. That was the real joy for us – seeing how good these people were getting so quickly.

Was there a good cop/bad cop kind of element to your approach?

NICK: No, not at all.
DYLAN: I’m pretty good. I thought he was a bit of a cunt!
(Nick laughs uproariously).
NICK: It was reverse psychology. A couple of times I was Mr. Nasty. But, you see, the pretext of the show isn’t about that.
DYLAN: At the end of the day, we were honest but fair. Fuck it, if it’s shit, it’s shit. If it’s good, it’s good. We weren’t going to pander to anybody.

Did any of the contestants get upset?

NICK: There was a few, yeah. Because I think they took it so seriously as well. If it’s no good, it’s no good, and you have to tell them that. There was one particular guy who thought his food was brilliant, and there was no telling him.
DYLAN: Oh, we told him!
NICK: And we told him, and we told him! (laughs)
DYLAN: Yeah, we told him a few times. But no, we actually just told him once, because he was gone then. It’s funny, it’s the same with chefs and with people in all professions, really, that people who congratulate themselves too much and pat themselves on the back and feel they have very little to learn – they don’t develop. It’s kind of insecure, but those who dare to judge themselves, who point the finger and go, ‘It’s not fucking good enough’, who’re kind of humble and always trying to better themselves, they’re the people that really develop in any profession. It was the same for this show. There were one or two who really congratulated themselves a bit much, and there was only so far they could go. But the kind of person who was never right, they’re the people that really got to the end.

Are you still like that yourself with your own cooking?

DYLAN: Absolutely! Of course! Jesus, you never lose that! Salvador Dali did say, ‘Never fear perfection, you’ll never reach it’ you know? Nick’s the same, I’m sure. Like, the work that I’m doing now personally, it’s kind of a commerical and accessible brand for everyone. The perfection of the work when it’s very complex cooking and all that – you’re always scrutinising and refining, and never really happy. I remember with Mint, I’d love a dish for about three weeks and then I’d want to throw it against a wall. That’s kind of in your nature or it’s not.

Are you still as hot-headed in the kitchen as you used to be?

DYLAN: No, everybody’s cooking on stones now so… (laughs) There’s 300 hot stones up there so it’s taking the stress off me. I’ve no need to be. Rustic Stone is great and it’s consistent, but it’s a casual dining experience, it’s not the labour-intensive work that Mint was. It’s not as complex. Every sauce is not made to order. It’s all about healthy eating and funky flavour and doing volume and people having a fun time. That’s the concept, and it’s working fantastically well. Thank god! Just like Nick’s place is working great here, too. It’s great value at a great price point, and that’s what people are looking for right now.

NICK: I think the beauty of it is being able to take the standards that you learned at a high end and implementing them at this sort of standard, so people are still getting that experience. What we’re implementing now is of a very high standard, not necessarily what myself and Dylan would like to ordinarily do, but at least we can implement those standards that we think are accessible to people in this kind of market.

You both worked in high-end places in London. How do Dublin diners compare as customers?

DYLAN: There’s less money (shrugs).

NICK: Irish people are well-travelled now, let’s not forget that. They’ve always been into food so it’s just a question of… the Irish want to be hugged and looked after and that’s very important and we recognise that. So if you understand the traits of an Irish person or an Irish customer, or anybody really... Everybody wants to be recognised in restaurants. It’s all about having a fun time with food, ambience, comfortable chairs, not being kicked out after half an hour. Just to embrace them. That’s what you have to do in this current market we’re in. Nothing has changed ultimately, apart from the amount of money around. People want to go to places that they’re comfortable in, where they know that their hard-earned cash will be well-spent, where they’ll be welcomed and looked after. That’s what it comes down to. That’s why these places are doing relatively well.

Were you always naturally sociable, Nick, or was that a skill that you learned?

NICK: I grew up in a hotel background anyway, but I’ve always been naturally outgoing – until I get home that is! I paint as well, which is a bit of a release. It does take its toll, though, because you’re continuously on.

What do you do to switch off after work, Dylan?

DYLAN: Ummm… what do I do to switch off? Let people cook on stone! (laughs) I would always have been quite sociable, and always got on with people, but I mean, with Mint or whatever, I was always so wrapped up in the work that I didn’t really have a lot of time for anyone or anything. It’s only now that I’m in my early 30s that I’m realising just how much more balance I’m developing compared to what I had back then. In my 20s, it was the work. Little or no time for family, let alone friends, and now those things are so much more important to me than they were. My character has developed through all the sacrifice. I think Nick always had that skill on the floor, and that ability to mix. I’ve never had a problem mixing with anyone, but I’m more interested now than I was.

Nick, back when you were working with Marco Pierre White, you once did a private Christmas dinner for Madonna and Guy Ritchie at their London home. How was that?

NICK: I had actually left Marco, and he asked me to come back and do it. It was great fun. I went to meet them and they were very nice, very accommodating. It was just all these A-listers at her Christmas party in her house. I remember Guy had this amazing sort of James Bond office. We did an Italian buffet for them, but before the people arrived, they had some fish and chips.
DYLAN: Posh?
NICK: Posh fish and chips, yeah (laughs). She had like eight PAs around her, it was quite a surreal experience. And I always remember this Francis Bacon painting, the one with the shotgun, it was a present from Madonna to Guy, and I walked past it. I was more interested in the painting, because I’m not a huge fan (of hers), but it was a very nice thing to do.

Are celebrity customers important?

DYLAN: I think it’s nice. I’m very unimpressed by a lot of people. I don’t get starstruck very easily. That’s not to say that it isn’t interesting to meet certain people, but I wouldn’t be as knocked over by certain individuals, and I’ve cooked for, and met, quite a few. Specific people might stick out from time to time.

NICK: I worked at The Clarence for five years and I met Bono for the first time and that was quite inspiring. He has that aura about him and it was quite an experience. Wow! After that, he’d always ask about my family and how I was doing, which was a great, respectful thing. But I think when A or Z-list celebrities come in here, my staff would be more impressed than I would.

DYLAN: I suppose the question you’re asking is; is it important for business? I think Nick would feel the same: if you’re relying on that sort of thing to drive your business, it’s kind of a bit silly. I think they’ll come and they’ll go, and a place can be cool and funky and approachable, and it’s great to have different types of people, but it’s really about the customers themselves. Customers love to see someone like that in a room, depending on who it is, but I certainly don’t rely on that. I like the discretion of it. I don’t ring the papers when such and such is in. You kind of protect their discretion to some degree, and meet some cool people along the way, but it’s not part of the business for me.

Nick’s done a dinner for Madonna. Do you ever get hired to go and cook in somebody’s private kitchen, Dylan?

DYLAN: You mean like celebrity type things? I had some very, very wealthy customers at Mint, who would ask me to go and cook privately in their homes. Which was great (laughs) because when Mint closed I literally had to put things together again and put my life back together again.

Were you totally broke when Mint closed?

DYLAN: Yeah. But I mean, it wasn’t massive, massive. It was just a case of okay, you’ve got to put your life back together, and look at what the next step should be. My mother was very sick at the time, so the option of leaving Ireland, as much as I thought it was my only option, was something I had to decline. I had to try and think of something that I’d be able to operate that would allow me to spend time with her. Which is where Rustic Stone came from.

Conrad Gallagher has just had his restaurant closed by the taxman. Do you have any sympathy?

DYLAN: Look, nobody likes to kick anyone when they’re down. We are all accountable for the choices we make, and we have to have integrity and work through business and try our best to look after our customers and look after our employees and our businesses and what we do. Nobody likes to see anybody go down. I’ve had to liquidate and get on with it, and you have to re-adapt and be smarter. Recessionary times can force us into being more innovative and more creative and adapt and understand our weaknesses and our strengths and try and develop as human beings and make our life better. The restaurant business is full of insecure people who like to look and point their finger and say, ‘Oh look what happened to him’, but who really cares? Real people, and real men with some character, actually want to see people do well. They don’t want to point and say, ‘Haha, you fucked up again!’, or ‘You did shit!’. They’ve enough problems to deal with. I’ve no interest in gloating at anyone less fortunate, to be honest.

Did either of you watch the RTÉ drama series Raw?

NICK: Yeah, I loved it.

Was it an accurate portrayal of the business ?

DYLAN: Well, you know… gay chefs kissing food critics (laughs). Some fucker sent me a DVD back when I was in Mint asking me the same question, ‘Was it accurate?’ Some homosexual head chef who goes around shouting at everyone and kissing food critics! Quite funny. It’s a good drama.

NICK: To do an accurate show on a restaurant is to put a fly on the wall. Raw is an entertainment TV show, and is about what happens to the characters as opposed to what happens in a restaurant. But I thought it was a great drama for Irish TV. The characters were very good, the storyline is also very important as well. There’s drama, there’s sex…

Have either of you ever had sex in the kitchen? Not with each other, mind...

DYLAN: In the kitchen? At home? I’ve had it everywhere! (laughs) Fuck me, he’s asking all the questions this morning, isn’t he? Go on, Nick, you answer that.
NICK: An honest answer right (grins)… catering is one of those... . If you’re a single man, opportunities arise, and temptations arise, and why not? As for sex in the kitchen, it’d be more so on a round table, in the dark, when everyone has left, for me. Or one of the chefs (laughs). I worked in a lot of hotels, and went to a lot of parties and there’s a lot of mixing going on, so hey, why not?

DYLAN: I say don’t screw the crew. Not if you want the job done properly.
NICK: I learned that lesson! (laughs) I learned that lesson! It’s a learning curve.

Anthony Bourdain has some fairly full-on hedonistic stories in his autobiography, Kitchen Confidential. So what about after-hours drinking and drugging?

NICK: Well, I had a very good friend, who was a head waiter, who was fond of the bottle and unfortunately didn’t get the correct help and was found at the bottom of the Thames. So I know it happens.

DYLAN: The catering industry is very, very demanding. But to be creative and do the work, you have to be clear-headed to some degree. We all like to go out and let our hair down, we all like to go out and have a few drinks and get drunk, just like anybody else, but at the end of the day... (pauses) Me personally, when I was in the depths of being creative and working really hard, you’re focused. I didn’t even drink Red Bull, because it was a cop-out. I drank huge amounts of coffee. You need to be very focused and on the ball. I do hear stories of people in London who can supposedly keep up doing this, that and the other, and I don’t really believe in all of that. I don’t believe in the Anthony Bourdain Kitchen Confidential stuff. If you’re gonna mix those two worlds, in your work... (looks outraged) Like, you can’t even taste, how’s that going to work? How the fuck are you going to be able to season everything, and think about everything, and get everything to perfection every fucking day if you’re gonna be off your face every night? It doesn’t add up. However, when you’re young, it’s a very relentless pace and there is a party hard/work hard kind of attitude.

NICK: But then there’s burnout stage so you can’t sustain it. It all depends on who you work for, as well. If you work at the top end, you need to have and maintain that 110% discipline and focus every day. And if you’re on some substance, or drinking, there’s no way that you can do it. Obviously if it comes to a Friday night and you’re off the next day, then everyone goes beserk. It’s a release of pent-up energy. So yeah, maybe one day a week you can partake, but I’ve only seen that when I was much younger. But if you do come to work drunk, you’re sent home and you’ve lost a day’s wages.

DYLAN: There’s a lot of people in the catering industry who get into that kind of thing, and they get older and they’re relying on it. It’s the same in the pub scene. A lot of guys who are nightclub operators and such. But when it comes to staff, you don’t really want guys like that around.
NICK: Anyway, I’m sure it’s worse in journalism (laughs).

What do you think of celebrity chefs like Jamie Oliver?

DYLAN: Cooking today is like fucking religion. Every TV programme, we sit at home and flick – I don’t watch them, to be honest – but they’re really for the domestic person who has an interest in making food with the money in their pockets. Like, the economy has improved in the last 50 years to some degree and there’s more stuff available. Even Ireland, 150 years ago this country was chopped in half by starvation, that’s not that long ago. It’s a person-and-a-half’s lifetime. We looked like Ethiopia. We went from nine million people to fucking four. Like, what does that do to a culture? Anyway, when you look at people like Jamie Oliver… he kind of let everybody think they could be a chef. He wasn’t as regimental. When I was learning to be a chef, the more disciplined, the more Michelin stars, the more brilliant you were at your craft, the better, the further you came along. Marco (Pierre White) would have changed that because he was so brilliant. But then something else happened. The domestic cook wanted to cook something that he could achieve at home and that changed everything because all of a sudden quiche and mushroom fucking tart was achievable at home. So when simpler stuff became more achievable, that’s what people bought into, and these people who weren’t really chefs became commercially broader market. And there are many people who aren’t very talented chefs but they have a broad commercial appeal. It’s not just about the food. It’s kind of about how you carry yourself and you’re telling everyone that they can do it too. It’s not very complex. Somebody like Jamie had such a broad appeal to everyone. It wasn’t just about the food anymore. He was a brand – but it was like your brother really, so many people that he was palatable for. But the smaller niche market, you can’t really achieve that at home. It’s not going to be in every newspaper or magazine because it has such a small niche place.

NICK: I think he was very clever because he has appealed to the masses, he gets endorsed by the celebrity world, and he’s constantly in your face. I think the way they packaged him was that sort of for the young kids at home, partying, and having a good time, and it evolved. I have huge respect for him, though.

DYLAN: He’s simply very good in a simple way. It’s very tasty, but in a simple way. If he had have gone deeper and deeper into food, he would be different, but because he stayed simple, that’s what made it so simple for everyone else.

How about Nigella Lawson?

DYLAN: Again, a very broad appeal. You’re selling a person here, you’re not selling the food. They can cook, but it’s the personality and the commerciality of it. It’s about appealing to a larger spectrum of people. It’s a bit like commercial music, no? Exactly the same. There’s pop music and there’s great fucking music.

What do you think of the standard of food criticism in this country?

DYLAN: Food critics? Some of them know what they’re saying, some of them don’t. I don’t think any one of them have the ability to dictate business in Ireland, not one of them. I don’t think they should be feared or revered in the way that some of them feel they should be. I’ve been very fortunate in my career, when I did Mint, never to receive a bad review – everybody hailed it and that was fantastic – and then you do something else and you get these people, that’ve never run a restaurant, coming in and telling you how to run yours! It’s quite funny, really. And even if they give you a horrible review and they slag it to the ground it’s like, ‘Well, who are you? Tell me what restaurants you’ve ran successfully’. What is it that Oscar Wilde says? ‘Why does the artist worry about what the critic thinks, and why do those that cannot create take it upon themselves to estimate the value of creative work?’ True, isn’t it? Why do they take it upon themselves to say what’s not creative when they can’t create?

NICK: People do listen to critics.

DYLAN: You think so?

NICK: Yeah they do. They do. It’s important to get a good review, regardless of who is writing the piece, because people will read it. A critic will always critique your place or your food. We’re obviously saying it’s great, but they might be saying a completely different story because it might not be to their liking. They’ll use big words to confuse you, but people will read these critics and make up their own mind whether to go or not. I only say that because we had a review in the Times by Tom Dorley. We went from 600 people in one week, and as soon as his review came out, we went to 1,200 because people read it.

DYLAN: Okay, some of them are good. It’s very important, though, that they judge things on different things. In Dublin you have cost of staff, rent, produce, rates, taxes, and so on – and it’s higher here than a lot of countries. You have to make a business profitable, because, fuck it, what are you in it for if not to make a better life for yourself? Nobody does it just for the love. We love what we do, but we all want to make a better life for ourselves. But there are all of these measurements. I could put 20 staff on the floor and have the best service in Dublin. But would it pay? Look at how things are in this country. We’re not in a position to do that. Are we gonna go to London, Spain and Germany, look at how they have restaurants, and come back here and copy that? Critics say things like, ‘This isn’t as good as what I had in London’. Yeah, well look at the spend in London. Look at the rates, look at the cost. It all adds up. A lot of critics are critical of the food, but not the overall package that dictates that. A lot of them don’t get it. Taxes are going through the roof, the country is screaming out. Everybody is breathing down everybody’s neck. It’s tough for everyone.

NICK: You have to buy a license for everything. I had to buy a license to have a drain outside the restaurant. A license for a drain? Come on!

DYLAN: Even doing Rustic, I love it but it’s not perfect. It’s not supposed to be perfect. People aren’t paying for perfect. When they’re paying for perfect, they get perfect. At a certain price point, it’s gotta be looser. I did perfect for a long time and people paid for that. It was 150 quid for your dinner and everything was hung the right way and as it was supposed to be. People come in and spend dramatically less now, and expect the same result. It’s not the reality of the times we’re living in.

As serious foodies, what are your guilty pleasures?

NICK: I love McDonalds myself.

DYLAN: Do you love McDonalds? So do I! I’ve gone real healthy these days, I really have. Just doing the Rustic thing, I got into my 30s and I went, ‘Right, I don’t want to become a fat chef’, and quite a lot of them are, so you have to be careful about that. So I thought, ‘Right, I want to eat nutritionally’. And Rustic has really taken off because people can come in and eat healthy but it’s full of flavour as well and it’s really clean food. I love clean food, I love food that isn’t really heavy with cream sauces and butter. In the second half of my life now – I cooked like that for a long time, it was all about flavour – and now I want to eat stuff that feels clean and fresh and doesn’t make me feel sickly or is full of calories. The difficult thing as a chef is that a lot of the flavour is in the fat, so right now I’m on this buzz where I want to create stuff that feels good. But yeah, I love a burger when I’m drunk (laughs).

What’s the ambition now for both of you?

DYLAN: Five years time, to be eating completely different food, with more restaurants at different levels.

NICK: To retire at 50.

DYLAN: 50?! I love you. Not long to go now then, only a few months (laughs).

NICK: From a young age, I always said I’m gonna retire at 50. I always had this dream that I was gonna buy a farmhouse in France and just do some painting and get fat and drink myself to death. That was my ambition. Maybe one day I will. Meantime, I think it’s very important to keep this place ticking over. I’m sure Dylan feels the same about his business. The plan is to find new concepts, and I love the challenge and the excitement of that. I love to get involved in the whole process of what a restaurant is, and if you’re in that you have a love affair with it. It’s very hard for you to give up what you’re actually doing. So, for me, the ambition is to keep going and to still have that stamina and ability to get motivated, and that people will still get what you’re doing. It is a hard time that we’re in. Everyone is suffering, and it’s important to have a place where people can escape from that. That’s all we can achieve in that current climate that we’re in. As long as people enjoy what we give them, then that’s the enjoyment you get from it.

DYLAN: I think today in Dublin, you have to work your business. You’ve got to be there. And I always find that restaurants of any level that are really good are a team of people, they’re not one person. When you rely on one person to make a restaurant, it doesn’t really work. You need the people around you. I’m sitting here today and I’m talking to you, and all my guys are back there working, they’re trying really hard, they’re on the ball, and you can’t beat that. When you learn how to put really great, amazing people around you, and you learn how to motivate them, be it a two, three Michelin star restaurant or casual dining brasserie or a café or a bistro or whatever, it really is about the team and the people and how they gel together and how they get along and make the place work. And when customers come to your door, it’s about how you make them feel, regardless of just the food. It’s about them, it’s about the service. It’s those little things. Did you care? People know when you care, they feel when you care, and they’ll be back if you care. You make the wheel go round, but it’s all the spokes that matter.

NICK: Yeah, you’re only as good as your team. Actually, I’ve just realised that we were supposed to be plugging MasterChef Ireland, and all we’ve done is plug our own restaurants.

DYLAN: Yeah, we both kind of sang our own song. Ah well!
NICK: He was only looking for the dirt anyway, Dylan!
DYLAN: He was. We didn’t give him much (laughs).

MasterChef Ireland airs Tuesdays and Thursdays on RTÉ Two at 9.30pm with extensive extra coverage the following mornings between 9am and 10am on The John Murray Show, RTÉ Radio 1.