Never Mind The Pollocks

As Sean Connick and I respectively roll and walk the short journey up Kildare Street from Leinster House to his new offices at the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, I tell the newly appointed Minister of State (for Fisheries and Forestry) that the last time I interviewed a man in a wheelchair, it was Larry Flynt.

“Larry Flynt?” the 46-year-old says in his Wexford accent, trying to place the name.
Then it registers that I’m talking about the notorious Hustler publisher. “Oh right . . . your man.” Laughing nervously, he wheels swiftly ahead of me.
Connick has been paralysed from the waist down ever since being hit by a car at the age of 12. Inevitably, the wheelchair complicates his life. “It adds ten minutes to everything,” he says, uncomplainingly. “I’ve always got to plan ahead. Wherever I go, I need to know if there is an accessible bathroom, a ramp, a dished kerb.”
Today, however, it’s not the wheelchair that’s slowing him down. A TD for Wexford since the 2007 general election, he’s less than a week into the new job, and only three days in his new department, so just about everybody we meet stops to congratulate him or introduce themselves. Those that don’t call out, “Hello, Minister,” as they walk past.
“It’s been crazy these last few days,” he says. “Meeting after meeting, getting to know the people in the department. From one minute to the next, you never know what controversy is going to hit you. We’re dealing with the Lost at Sea thing at the moment.”
A nice fellow, and a reasonably sharp political operator, Connick still seems a little naive regarding media matters.
Squeezed between meetings, he’s wondering if 15 or 20 minutes will be enough time for this interview. “So this is for Hot Press, yes? I suppose you’ll want to ask about my favourite bands and things like that?"
“Well, there’s a little bit more to it than that, Minister,” I say, pressing the record button . . .
(*)
OLAF TYARANSEN: I guess the big news story today is NAMA - €32 billion.
SEAN CONNICK: NAMA, yeah. Unbelievable.
What are your feelings about that?
My feeling is that it was the best of a bad lot of options. I mean, none of us wanted to do the things we’ve had to do. I think yesterday everybody was shocked at the scale of the debts. And so my own view is that we have to manage our way out of it. I think some of the claims that, you know, you close the bank and walk away from it . . . I mean, they weren’t viable because they would have exposed the State to huge money. So in this particular instance it’s a situation where we try and manage our way, and the economy, and the banks, over the next five to 10 years.
Surely it’ll take longer than that?
We’re looking at a 10-year time frame in terms of where we’re going to be going with our financial system. But I think we are doing the right thing, unpalatable as it may be, and as difficult as it is. And it is difficult, no one denies that, including the Minister himself. But I have to say I have good confidence in Brian Lenihan. I always have had because I feel that he is someone that has a fantastic grasp of his brief. I think he has put in some very important key personnel in places now, like the new Regulator, the new Central Bank man.
Brian Cowen was in the driving seat as Minister for Finance when the economy crashed. He claims it was all to do with Lehman Brothers collapse, and nothing to do with the mismanagement of our own economy.
Yeah, but certainly Lehman Brothers were a big part of it. They were a big shock to the financial system. I was in the States last year on holidays – and I was very conscious that in the debate that was taking place over there, the US was saying that if they had the opportunity back again, they would not have let Lehmans fail. And we have seen the banks right around Europe being propped up as well. The advice from the European Central Bank was that you protect your banks, because, you know, obviously they are all part of the system itself, and any systemic failure would be something that would have a huge knock-on effect right across the economy.
But surely that has happened anyway?
In fairness we went through a period where Ireland, from 1999 to 2007 was like a runaway train. There seemed to be no end to the good times in terms of the returns to the exchequer. People seemed to be making money; there was a feel-good factor out there; and I know people were warning, but they were warning from 2000 as well. So it was a sort of a rollercoaster ride, and I mean, all parties right across the divide would have been saying, ‘Oh look, you’re still not spending enough. And you still should be doing x, y, and z.’
Are you saying all the other political parties would have behaved the same way?
If you look at the last election in 2007, all of the parties with their manifestos were coming in looking at tax-cuts. They were looking at further tax-cuts. And they were looking at a scenario where they were talking about stamp duty removal, which would have driven the property market even further. So, the collapse was so sudden, and such a steep collapse, and so fast, the government and all of us have been trying to grapple with trying to save the banking system over that period of time, and then try and keep the various sectors protected in the fallout. But, I mean, it has all been about the banks unfortunately, and that’s something that we didn’t really have a choice about because we had to have a banking system in order to have an economy. So I think a lot of the focus that the Taoiseach gets is unfair in that anyone in his position at the time, where the monies were coming in, where record levels of expenditure were being spent right across all of the sectors – I think that’s something that’s forgotten – we were spending record levels of expenditure across Health, across Education, Social Welfare.
Mostly in terms of benchmarking and increasing salaries.
And that was going on as well. And I think everybody was buying into this, that as long as the money kept rolling in we could keep spending the money. I’m also of the view that we actually did achieve quite an amount. Infra-structurally, when you drive around the country, as I do quite a bit, our roads network now is fantastic. Almost complete. I mean, that’s hugely important, and I’ve seen all the improvements we’ve had in our schools. I know education comes in for a lot of criticism, but in my own area in Wexford, I have seen phenomenal investment right across all the schools. So, every sector, including the hospitals where they got the new extensions and that – so everybody has benefited in some way from it, and now the difficulty is that sudden shock that we’ve had. My one criticism now – and that’s because of hindsight – is that we did erode the tax base, and we became too reliant, obviously, on the construction sector. And we took too many people out of the tax net. I am always of the view that I think everybody should pay tax at some level.
Surely the Government of the day has to accept responsibility?
I remember dealing with Brian Cowen when he was Minister for Finance, and he was instrumental in taking out a lot of the (tax-based) incentives. I mean, he was adamant. I remember myself as a councillor lobbying on behalf of people trying to get an extension on the hotel incentives. And the Taoiseach – at the time he would have been Minister for Finance – was steadfast. In hindsight, he was right. But the pressures were on all of us at that time to try and …people were saying, ‘Well look, we want this here, we want that there …’ And it was sort of, nobody saw an end to it all. I suppose there was an element of if people were talking down the economy you couldn’t really see where they were coming from other than they were being negative. But, you know, I would be supportive of Brian Cowen. I think, as an individual he is a very nice individual. He’s a very capable fella.
Do you rate him as a good communicator?
Well, he has come in for a lot of criticism because of his communication. I have seen him perform. I have been at meetings with him where he stood on the stage and given some fantastic speeches without a note. If you remember the two Chamber of Commerce speeches, actually, which went out on radio, where he spoke at the annual dinner there over the last couple of years. And I mean, one-on-one he is superb. The media would be criticising him, but I find that he is in a difficult position. He is obviously able to control his cabinet; he is obviously able to control, and has brought this government through some horrendously difficult times, and some very difficult decisions, and difficult budgets. So he obviously has a lot going for him. Maybe the media are a little bit over-critical of him at times. I wouldn’t be as critical of him. I would be supportive of him.
You’ve been a TD for less than three years. Were you surprised to be been given a junior ministry?
Yes, to be honest. I'd have thought it’d passed me by last week because once I heard that the Green Party were going to get two junior Minister posts I thought, that whatever geography aspect that was there would have impacted on me.
Do you think you only got the job because Martin Cullen had resigned and someone in the South-East was needed?
I would consider that’s probably a fact. I mean, Fianna Fáil would need someone in the South-East. We saw it yesterday with the helicopter service which has been saved, which was hugely important. The South-East region – if you look at it at the moment we have Dick Roche in Bray, and the next time you meet a Minister of any description in terms of junior or senior was by the time you got around to Martin Mansergh of South Tipperary, so there’s a huge population and a large amount of the country without a minister. It’s hugely important that you have either a junior or senior minister in the South-East. It is a hugely populated area. Wexford has a population of 130,000 on its own. Between Carlow, Kilkenny, Waterford, and Wexford, you're talking about half a million people. So, I have no difficulty if someone says Sean Connick got a junior ministry because there was no one else in the South-East. That’s fine. But the Taoiseach did have a choice, and he could have put in Brendan Kenneally. He could have put in Bobby Edward, M.J. Nolan, John Browne. And I would have been delighted for any of those individuals. My view on it was that it was important that we got one.
In terms of your actual ministry, is the controversy surrounding Frank Fahy giving the bulk of the Lost at Sea funding to two of his constituents something you have to address now?
Yes, I actually have to address it this evening. What’s happened is there’s a private members motion, in the Seanad at five o'clock this evening. So I have had my speech there, which has been handed in, and I have been going through that. My briefing is at four o'clock. But, I mean, I have to take that this evening. We have already debated the Lost at Sea Report, and the issue of the ombudsman, in the Seanad. We have also had statements on it in the Dáil. The issue is whether or not she comes before a committee. Now, under normal circumstances, the Taoiseach himself has said, he has no difficulty if the committee decides to take her in. As to getting into who did what, that's not something I’m going to comment on other than I have my response there, and as I said I’m getting a full briefing on it at four.
You voted in favour of the blasphemy law. Why?
The law was there at the time …it was part of the …really, what was in existence was a jail sentence in relation to it. We kind of felt, the Minister at the time felt, ‘Look, we have to ad this’. And really, rather than getting into the whole blasphemy law debate on it, the real reason for changing it was to remove the jail sentence term and to replace it with a fine. But it got a life of its own, and became a huge issue with people right around the country. There was a huge amount of emails, and contact with people, lobby groups. I mean, breaking it all back down, really it was the removal of a sanction of a jail sentence and replacing it with the fine. To remove it altogether from the Constitution would have required a constitutional amendment, which would have meant we would have had to go out and have a vote on that. And I’m sure that’s something that could have been done. But at the time the Minister opted to go the route he went. To me, it seemed like eminent sense. It’s been there all along, so it was kind of like a sleeping dog. Nobody kind of …until it raises its head again. And while he was trying to do something to diminish it slightly in terms of the penal side of it, it then blew up again and came back to bite him.
Are you religious?
I am, yes. Catholic. And I try to attend Mass every Sunday. And I would be religious as well, in that, obviously I would be conscious of prayer. So, I mean, yes, I would be.
Do you mind if I ask about the accident that left you in a wheelchair?
No, not at all.
When did it happen?
It was ten days before my thirteenth birthday. Elvis died on the 16th of August, 1977. And I had my accident on the 17th of August, 1977. I was heading to play a game of pitch-and-putt with some friends of mine. We were cycling over to a small pitch-and-putt course that was about a mile or so from my home. And I dropped a golf ball out of my pocket. A simple thing. I mean, it’s all about fate and timing. I got off the bike and went back for it, and my friends rode on. And another chap caught up with me, and we cycled out at a crossroads, and I rode out in front of a car, unfortunately. I was very badly injured: break in the leg; compound fracture of my leg below the knee; femur; ribs. When I came off the car I ended up on the concrete posting and broke my back at T-4 level, thoracic level 4, which is chest level. Punctured a lung.
Can you remember it all?
Oh absolutely, yeah. I was semi-conscious for a short period after. I remember cycling out on the road, looking left, and there was the car. And it’s like an ad on television, everything stops for a few minutes. I was apparently semi-conscious because my mates came back, and I was trying to get up. And I was talking to them – I don’t remember any of that. I had a ten minute period where my mind was blocked out of what was going on to some degree. But then I came to, on a stretcher. I was being put into a Volkswagen van. They are local business people in New Ross, the Welsh’s, and I was being put into their van, and I remember John Kirwan, who worked for my late Dad, and my father then arriving, and they were talking to me, but then the ambulance arrived. I remember fully the lady talking to me in the ambulance, Nurse O’Brien, as I travelled to Waterford. I was fully alert the whole way to Waterford in the ambulance. Going along the quay I remember seeing the clock tower at Waterford Regional Hospital as it is now, where they – obviously, in A and E – they took all the clothes off and started work on me straight away. I was flown by helicopter the next morning then, to Dún Laoghaire where they carried out – they saved my life in Dún Laoghaire. All of the work was done in Dún Laoghaire, you know, all of the operations.
Was it a long recovery?
I was in intensive care for weeks, and I was very badly injured, so it was a miracle recovery. And I did a lot of praying then! As I came to, because there would have been a lot of pain at the time – it was a very traumatic episode. Did anyone ever sit down and tell me, ‘Sean, you’re paralysed’? No. Did we have that, like, television conversation? No. It was a gradual realisation. And it was a gradual progression of feeling better and getting better. I was in what was called a rota-rest bed – I had traction on my leg; I had pins in my legs; I had a tube in my side; I had tubes everywhere. I didn’t get to sit up for, it was 12 weeks. I stayed in bed for twelve weeks solid. After that, just sitting up was fantastic.
The next part must have been tough.
Then it was a case of getting out into the wheelchair, and then a case of moving, pushing the chair around the place itself. And getting home, I suppose. You know, I had great family and friends, and the people around me were fantastic. I was never left out of anything, and encouraged all the time by them. But it was difficult.
It must have been particularly hard during your teenage years.
Growing up through teenage years I had to be persuaded to go to the disco, persuaded to go to the gig, but eventually when I’d go, I was off and I was …I mean, I loved them, and I enjoyed it like any teenager. But there was a lot of work in getting me to go to places. I was conscious of the disability, and obviously conscious of my weight, and things like that. Like, everybody in life, we are anonymous, to some degree, and you lose that anonymity, if you understand what I’m saying, as soon as you become disabled. Because when I go into a room, everybody knows I’m in the room. I have a visible disability. It’s not like somebody maybe whose leg is amputated, you don’t see [it] – it’s what I’d call an invisible disability. In my particular instance, when you meet Sean Connick you know he’s disabled because you see it. But people have always said to me I make people comfortable, and people get on with me, and after a few minutes of talking the chair sort of goes out the window and it’s not an issue. Like I said, I had a lot of support, great family, great friends, my wife Lourdes, and people like that have been really helpful the whole way through.
You went into business immediately after school.
Yeah. I went back to school in 1978 after my accident. I had my accident between 1st and 2nd year and I went back to school in second year, having missed most of it up to the Easter break. A very important decision made at that time was to put me back into my own class: that was hugely important, because to those guys I was Sean Connick going through school with them, and at that point I was Sean Connick in a wheelchair. There was no big deal. I was still Sean Connick to them. And I continued through school with those. And then I did my Leaving in 1981, and I went to work in my late Dad’s garage. We were Fiat/Lancia’s main dealer in New Ross Motors. I worked there for seven years, and then opened a fitness centre/health club with my wife Lourdes in 1986. We bought property opposite the garage, and we ran a health club there for 14 years. I loved the people, I hated the business, because it was a difficult one to make any money. We made a living out of it, in terms of making a few bob. And I dabbled in the record industry. I set up a label called Grapevine Records, with two friends of mine. We did a four-track EP with Scullion. But, I mean, I got out of that. My colleague stayed in it, Paddy Prendergast, in the UK, and he went on to become quite successful.
Was music important to you growing up?
Hugely, yeah. I would have been part of a group that played slogan náisiúnta. It was music done through the medium of Irish, and we would have had pop groups that developed out of that.
Do you speak Irish?
Cúpla focal. I do, a little bit, and I try to include it when I am publicly speaking. There’s always a line or two in there. But in terms of music I like everything. I’m a Boomtown Rats man. Bob Geldof was my hero at the time, ‘Looking After No.1’. But I have a broad spectrum, from Dire Straits, to Westlife, to Ronan Keating, to X-Factor fan. I’m a Glee fan at the moment. Anything musical, I love, American Idol, and all this kind of stuff. So, I would go see all the pop bands and rock bands. I try to get to as many concerts as possible. And I love shows as well, the London shows – the Les Mis thing, Mamma Mia!. I was at We Will Rock You. Theatre, music, Tops of the Town – I would have produced shows, I would have played in shows, all that, over the years.
You play guitar, don’t you?
I play the guitar. Not often enough, and not good enough according to my mates, you know, so I’m sort of a three-chord trick person. But I love it, and I love getting together with some friends, when we socialise. All of my friends actually play, a lot of them are involved in music, and some of them went on to become professional musicians. They play anything from piano, to trumpet, to guitar, so we have some great times when we get together, and some great sessions and sing-songs. So I love that time with my friends.
Do you drink?
No, I don’t drink. At all.
Did you miss out on that important experimental period during your teenage years?
No, my late Dad didn’t drink either. I have no taste for it. I have tried everything, and tasted it all over the years, but I have no longing for it. And actually it doesn’t impact on me, I still would go out and enjoy myself socially. I mean, I’m not one of these guys who has a hang-up about a pub. I don’t. I love socialising. I don’t drink. Probably, in hindsight, it’s a good thing, from the chair perspective. And also from the point of view of the politics. I tend to enjoy myself when I’m out, and people know that, and I don’t need a drink to do that. I don’t criticise anyone who has a drink, I’m not one of those people.
What’s your take on the Head Shop debate?
Interesting, and I’m sort of open-minded on it. I mean, I have all of the angle where people are saying, ‘Oh, these are terrible. Close them down’. And then at the same time, I have people saying, ‘Well, hang on a second, these guys (the users) are not owing money now, they’re not in situations where they’re being chased down by guys giving them the hard stuff’. And so, I think it needs to be carefully looked at. Certainly, I would be concerned about some of the product that they have. I particularly would be concerned about the …you know, there have been some deaths, I think, in the UK and that. I think we need some form of regulation. Whether or not we need to ban them, I don’t know, but I am open to a wider debate on it. But I think it’s certainly something we need to look at carefully, rather than go in and shut them all down.
I take it you’ve never tried a recreational drug either?
No, genuinely, I haven’t [laughs].
Do you agree there should be a certain quota of Irish music played on Irish radio stations?
Absolutely. I have actually been speaking to a guy called Danny McCarthy in relation to this, and I would have talked to Tom Kitt. We would have brought the Irish radio station managers in before the Oireachtas committee on Arts, Sports, and Tourism a few weeks back. Yeah, I mean, when was the last time …the last time I heard Tommy Fleming, or Mary Black, or any of the young up-and-coming Irish bands on radio? I can’t say. David Kitt, for argument’s sake. I know Tom won’t like me mentioning that, but I couldn’t tell you the last time I heard David Kitt. We are producing fantastic Irish artists, and at this point in time there are areas where nobody can compete with us. I think we are brilliant when it comes to music and to the arts. Our potential with actors, and bringing the producers and the film makers here to Ireland, all of that stuff I am big into. And I would love to see all of those areas developed. So, I feel that we should be – right across all of our stations – there should be much heavier promotion of what's Irish… and that’s everything, whether it’s Irish Country right through to the up-and-coming singer/songwriters, right through to out trad bands, even, you know, The High Kings, all of those guys.
You’re involved in running a music festival, aren’t you?
I run the JFK Dunbrody Festival in New Ross every year. This is its tenth year. I love it. I do it as a hobby. There’s a huge amount of work in it, it’s a big three-day event, and this year we have people like The Bards and Brendan Bowyer, but I would have had all the artists from Aslan and all these guys over the years. I’m huge into that. I love doing it. This year I think we have the Fun Lovin’ Criminals coming in, we have Vanilla Ice and we have a Michael Jackson tribute show. They are kind of the headline acts. I eat, sleep, and drink that kind of stuff. We are going to do a special one-nighter this year where all of our home town people will play music, and sing, and the bands and all that will be playing in it. That kind of stuff drives me on.
You were talking about taxation earlier, and you mentioned that you think everyone should be in the tax net. Do you think the artist’s exemption is a good idea?
I think it was when we could afford it at the time. I think maybe the threshold should be looked at. You know, maybe you can bring it down. Maybe if a guy is earning around fifteen or twenty grand a year you don’t hit him, but someone who is earning maybe €300,000 or a million euro, I think certainly.
You know, I think we should look at that. And I would think that we will. I think the Commission on Taxation Report throughout its whole report is a very balanced and fair report. It will mean lots of changes, it will mean property taxes, and it will mean water taxes and all that, but it will compensate in other areas. I still have total confidence in this country and in the people. I think we have great people. We have great natural talent, great natural resources, and I think we need to be… I think we have kicked ourselves to death for long enough now, right? We have been giving out and fighting and arguing. Everyone’s angry, and all this craic for eighteen months, but we need to move on now. We need to get the thing back up and running, and I know we can do it. It’s a matter of getting a positive message back, and let’s try and pull ourselves back up, and get out there and do it. And, I mean, that’s the message that I would be sending out.
Given what’s come out since the Murphy Report, and taking our economic situation into account, do you think the deal that Michael Woods made with the Catholic Church should be looked at again, and perhaps they should pay more money?
It’s the whole debate on Canon law versus God’s law, you know, isn’t it? The Church has lost so many people now, in terms of …but the Church is the people. Like, we are the Church. I think, looking back on the deal with the religious orders, I mean, I came through the Christian Brothers. I’m one of the guys who didn’t have any bad experiences. They were fantastic, and they gave us the opportunity with the music end of it.
The teachers were fantastic to you in particular because you were in a wheelchair?
No, no, but I wasn’t at that time. So starting from 2nd year on … yes, they were fantastic, actually, when I came back in the wheelchair, but my own experiences and many people would be the same. There were some horrendous individuals within the system, and I think the system now is recoiling from the shock of protecting itself, as opposed to dealing with the issues at the time. And I feel very sorry for the – I have some very good friends, and they are very fine people, who are priests, and Christian Brothers, they are personal family friends, they have been for years – and I feel very sorry for those people who have been let down, as the public have, who have been disappointed by the whole scenario. In terms of the deal …you know, at the moment, what’s the value of any piece of land? What’s the value of anything? They certainly have huge amounts of assets, but then at the same time how can you quantify the positive aspects? I mean, they educated all of us, they brought us to where we were because at the time the State weren’t in a position to do it, and you know, so I’m conscious always of the huge contribution that’s been made by the religious orders, and at the same time we are hitting them for costs in relation to that. Now, I’m not au fait with the full figures, but I think, ultimately we have seen – and we have probably seen in our lifetime – the demise of the Christian Brothers in the country, and they played a phenomenal role in educating us, as have the Sisters. Vocations are now so low with the priests that that’s another area that’s very heavily impacted. You know, I’m sympathetic to the position that the good people within the Church find themselves in, and I’m conscious that we, as a nation, and as a people, are the Church, and we need to take back ownership of it in some respect. We need to get the Canon lawyers out of the picture, and get the religion back in.
When was the last time you cried?
Em …I was appointed Junior Minister on Tuesday …I think, Wednesday.
Was that when you saw your brief?
[Laughs] No, sometimes I get emotional about some things, and I think it’s okay to cry. I suppose there was the excitement; there was the joy; there was the celebration aspect; and then there was, at the back of my mind, the likes of my late Dad, who didn’t live to see it – there was a sense of achievement. I think all of those factors together combined, and I’m kind of an emotional fella anyway. I suppose I had a little bit of a tear-jerker thing, and then grand again after a couple of seconds, you know. Get up and get on with it, yeah.
It’s expected that Fianna Fáil will get trounced in the next election. What do you say to that?
Well, I’m not so sure. I think the next election will probably be the most incredible election there has ever been in the history of this State. I think people will weigh up and evaluate every single individual that’s going for office. I think every party’s manifesto will be fine-tuned – it will be gone through with a fine tooth comb. I think policies and proposals for how this country is going to go into the future will be hugely analysed. I think it’s going to be the most incredible election of all time, and I would write nobody in, or nobody off. Because within the structure of Fianna Fáil we have some amazing people. I know, I see them, I work with them. I know there are same in the other parties. And I wonder… I mean, it’s one thing to say, ‘Oh, we’ll get hammered in the polls', but I wouldn’t be so sure. I think it’ll be an incredible election. Probably one of the most important elections this State’s ever had.