Fr Shay Cullen is on a crusade to stamp out the sexual exploitation and abuse of destitute children in one of the poorest regions of Asia. He has, as a result, been nominated three times for the Nobel Peace Prize. In fact, the 64-years-old’s courage has been internationally recognised with a litany of awards, while there have also been high-profile documentaries about Fr Shay’s campaigns on the likes of CNN, ITV and BBC.

Through his work, he has formed what at first sight might seem like an unlikely friendship with the actor Martin Sheen, himself a human rights activist, who last year stated in a hotpress interview: “Fr Shay has saved the lives of thousands of these poor children, and he’s helped jail some of the world’s most evil paedophiles. What he has achieved is nothing short of a miracle.”
In his formative years, the Dublin-born curate spent time working with Mother Teresa in Calcutta, and it was she who motivated him to work with abused children. Fr Shay first came to international prominence with his successful campaign to close the US military bases that operate in the Philippines, and which had resulted in an upsurge of brothels.
Since the inception of his human rights organisation, the People’s Recovery Empowerment Development Assistance (PREDA), back in 1974, Fr Shay has rescued thousands of children from drugs, brothels and even adult prisons, where the government insisted in the past on detaining juveniles, who were then frequently subjected to horrific ordeals of abuse while sharing cells with convicted sex offenders.
From his base in Olongapo, which is a small town on the edge of the South China Sea, Fr Shay operates a centre that provides a therapeutic recovery home for over 100 street children, some as young as six years old, who have suffered from drug addictions or, worse still, have been trafficked into sex slavery.
Thousands of foreign paedophiles flock here because their illicit sexual gratifications can be obtained cheaply and, more importantly, to a very large extent without legal repercussions. The Philippines attracts such a high number of child abusers from Western countries, most notably Germany, the UK, the US and even Ireland because, according to Fr Shay, they are able to escape prison sentences by offering bribes to the police or government officials.
Despite the blatant corruption, Fr Shay and his team of investigators have still managed to bring dozens of foreign paedophiles to court, with some notable convictions.
The PREDA team have also managed to uncover international syndicates trafficking children, ultimately leading to Interpol and the FBI making arrests in Europe and North America. But Fr Shay’s heroic actions have resulted in several assassination attempts on his life, and there have been numerous efforts to blacken his name, including entirely unfounded allegations of child abuse and corruption.
While there is no doubting the enormous energy and commitment he brings to the vital work in which he is engaged – something of which I am well aware, having worked on his book Passion and Power with him – he is surprisingly impatient and dismissive when he is asked, in a series of follow-up e-mails, to answer questions about the apparently huge gulf that exists between the work that he is doing as a missionary and the machinations of the institutional Church. And he seems to be similarly unwilling to address issues concerning the very foundations of Christian belief. “I am in a developing country working with abused children and human rights violations and you are stuck into medieval non-questions,” he said at one point, in an irate e-mail. “I am not giving them any value by answering. The Philippines has just been declared the most corrupt (country) in Asia etc. I am just too busy trying to help the kids in jail this week and so on. Sorry, that’s all I am doing and if what I said is edited to reflect some editor's or interviewer's prejudice or support their or your point of view, I will protest in my weekly column that my interview was tampered with.”
Some of the questions and answers have been incorporated into the flow of the interview. Others that ran aground have been omitted. As ever, HOTPRESS has been scrupulous in reflecting accurately and fairly what was said during the course of what was a very long interview process.

JASON O’TOOLE: The Philippines is swamped with sex tourism. Do many Irish come over?
FR SHAY CULLEN: It is very difficult to know how many. We had several Irish bars taken over by a guy from Northern Ireland and he now has various sex clubs there. His name is Richard Agnew and he is a big time tourist developer – so, for sure, they bring in their own nationalities. You can pick up any of the girls in these clubs and ‘bar fine’ them, which allows the customer to take the girl off the premises for the night, to go back to his hotel for sex. They call it a bar fine because many of the girls earn money for the bar or club by selling drinks. So the guy who takes her out has to make a compensation payment, as a cover for prostitution. UNICEF reckons that sixty thousand minors are being sexually exploited throughout the Philippines. Remember that the sex industry in the Philippines is mostly owned by foreign nationals and they are exploiting the vulnerable. It is disgraceful.
And from what you say, there are Irish involved?
Yes, there are Irish sex tourists and paedophiles coming over, but it would be hard to calculate figures because the corrupt legal system means they are rarely arrested. Firstly, I would have to say we don’t work very closely with the police because they can be very negligent and they don’t know how to investigate these syndicates. Also, many of the police assigned to this kind of operation would succumb to grave temptations, and therefore they don’t do much of the type of investigation work that we at PREDA undertake. The police are warned off by corrupt politicians. We are not very successful in securing convictions because these paedophiles and perverts are able to escape from prison sentences – even after being arrested and going to court – by offering bribes.
If so-called Irish sex tourists whet their appetite in the Philippines with young girls, do you think there is a danger that they will bring back their sick desires to Ireland?
This is a very worrying and plausible nightmare scenario. These guys come back home more addicted to child sex after being in the Philippines. So all the Irish children are vulnerable and at risk. The British police do come out to the Philippines looking for their criminals. The fact that the Irish police are not doing much to investigate what is going on abroad is a matter of great concern. The FBI is very aggressive about going after their criminals who abuse children abroad. Here, they don’t do it and I am challenging the Irish government not to allow an attitude of ‘It’s better to have Irish paedophiles abroad instead of at home’. Many of these government officials say, ‘Let them abuse abroad, so long as they don’t do it here.’
The internet is playing a role, in that it allows the sex mafia in the Philippines to advertise their ‘services’ to paedophiles.
The internet server companies are partly responsible because they refuse to filter and block access to websites, such as child pornography websites, when they could easily do so. British Telecom has shown the way. The Irish government, as well as other EU states, should introduce legislation for child pornography to be blocked in an effort to protect minors accessing it, and also to save those children being enslaved and abused in order to make the pornography.
Would you urge Irish telecommunication companies, such as Eircom and Smart, to deny access to child pornography?
This is one of the strongest challenges that I am making to the industry and to governments – to install a control and blocking software like ‘Cleanfeed’ and protect the children who are exploited and abused in the making of child pornography, and prevent others from accessing it. If British telecom can do it then the Irish companies should do it. They make millions out of providing unhampered access to child pornography and this is what feeds the appetites of paedophiles and puts children at risk. They must legislate to prevent it. You can’t operate a business establishment without installing fire extinguishers – it’s the law – so why can internet server providers operate without child porn extinguishers? They ought to have a government certificate to prove they have safety measures in place.
Is the Irish government negligent in its failing to tackle Irish sex tourism abroad?
They are helping us at PREDA a lot in funding, through Irish Aid, the human rights education programme, which helps us teach the people in the Philippines to combat sex tourism and child abuse. They will help us too to bring the PREDA Theatre group to Ireland this April and May. It’s a strong, uplifting musical all about the trafficked children saved from the sex slavery. But the Irish law enforcers could do a lot more to go after the Irish sex mafia that operate out here – and work with us in civil society to help catch them and bring them to justice for abusing children abroad. The British police work with us and we give them good tip-offs about wanted paedophiles and child abusers.
How does the sex mafia conduct its child sex business in the Philippines?
In the worst forms of sexual exploitation, child sex slaves are chained to beds, abused daily, threatened and tortured, punched and punished, beaten and bruised, and made a plaything for the powerful, a toy for the depraved. This kind of sex slavery is organised and financed by local and foreign investors. Many of them have criminal backgrounds in their own countries and are protected by politicians, prosecutors and judges. Some of these officials are implicated and compromised by illicit relationships with minors, and open to blackmail by the child and women traffickers and exploiters.
I understand that there have been several attempts made on your life. Who is trying to kill you?
As you can imagine, the sex mafia do come after us when we try to close down their sex bars and rescue children from sex slavery. When we try to bring them to trial and make them accountable, they retaliate with death threats. Once I was told that a hit man was offered $3,000 dollars to kill me, which was very cheap, really. I thought I was worth more than that. But I have survived a few attempts on my life.
You have seen some colleagues murdered during your time in the Philippines. Do you still live in fear?
No, I am not living in fear – that would be a victory for them. There is a big problem with assassinations at the moment – more than six hundred activists have been murdered by death squads in the past few years .The assassins are allegedly connected to the military, according to a UN investigation. None of the killers have been arrested or convicted. We have to take risks to protect human rights and many have died, including a bishop of the Philippine Independent Church, and many of their priests have been beaten up. I was beaten up by politicians’ goons on the streets some years ago, too. Jesus Christ was executed for standing with the poor and questioning and challenging the authorities and their abuses. We have to speak out against these violations, or else we might be giving consent by our silence. True Christianity is fighting for the rights of the poor. It is dangerous work, but I am not scared, it is an occupational hazard.
Is it true that when a street child is arrested, they are thrown into jails with adult prisoners, some of whom are convicted sex abusers?
We have been campaigning for ten years for new legislation to stop the imprisonment of children. All our efforts up until 2005 were unsuccessful, because the politicians in the Philippines had no interest in helping children, perhaps because children don’t vote. What motivates the majority of politicians here, apart from the notable exceptions, is money and shame. We have no money but we do have the ability to shame.
What did you do?
We shamed them by exposing the horrific conditions behind bars, on a ITV/CNN documentary. That moved them to pass a new law, which has perhaps been our main success story, besides leading the successful campaign to close the US bases and reduce the sex trade. All of those 20,000 children are being released now, and many of them have been sent to our PREDA’s children’s home. The PREDA team of trained psychologists, social workers and youth leaders have to care for them and help them recover from rape and abuse. We care for them because the government has no facilities to house them. There are many children still in the jails – just last week, we found several children in a police station cell with adults. Many of the kids behind bars are physically and sexually abused. There are many cases of young girls and women who are arrested for streetwalking, and some of the police – not all – would abuse these women. Many would give sexual favours just to be set free. Some of these women might take some customers in the jail. There would be prostitution inside the prisons.
How many children have you saved?
Many thousands. We are established since 1974. Hundreds and hundreds of children have come through our services and get reintegrated into their families and grow up, and many have found good jobs. That’s the happy part – it gives us strength and encouragement.
You work in extreme conditions, helping homeless children who barely have enough clothing. With this in mind, how do you feel about the Pope wearing designer shoes and glasses?
This is a traditional type of comparison and it is not really genuine, because the organised church is spending billions every year on the poor. The good Pope probably just got these as a free gift and if I know anything about industry, Prada gave them to him to get publicity. Remember, if you can give your product to a celebrity, it is worth millions. So the Pope was maybe a little naïve and overgenerous in accepting that gift. He walked into it a little – in his Prada shoes. I would have probably sold them for the poor (laughs).
You say the Pope is naïve to wear designer clothing, but do you think that the Vatican parades its wealth too much?
We can’t expect them to sell off the contents of the Vatican Museum. I believe that the income generated from the millions of tourists that view the historic art treasures goes to help the poor.
There is a huge gap between the aspirations of orders like the Franciscans and the reality of the institutional church, which is a huge business, run to make as much money as possible – the Moonies multiplied by a hundred million. Do you think that it’s OK for the Pope, the bishops and so on, to wear all of the fancy, ornate outfits that are the trappings of power and privilege – and to live in the lap of luxury and all of that – or would the money spent on this stuff be better directed towards alleviating poverty? And would you call on the Pope to do that...
I have answered enough (on this). The Vatican is in debt. The riches of the Vatican are in the Museum and the earnings go to the poverty alleviation projects of Caritas worldwide. It’s not the first time this question has been raised by critics of the institutional Church. This is the oldest and most repeated criticism of the institutional Church and serves no purpose. You are not up to date with the real issues of the developing world where most Catholics live and believe. Most Catholics in Europe have abandoned religion and faith, so they can’t be much interested in these issues. I am mostly interested in the Church as the people of God. If you don’t like the institutional church, just leave it and follow Jesus your own way.
You must get depressed having to deal with all these unfortunate cases of neglected and abused children?
With all those cases of child abuse, I will tell you what gets me down: it is mostly the injustice in the judicial system. A few bribes can make a prosecutor dismiss a case against a child rapist. That breaks my heart. I get angry and then I get working. It has made me more compassionate. The more you see human suffering the more compassionate and understanding you become.
You obviously have a great love for children – do you ever regret not having any of your own?
No, I don’t. I have one hundred children living in our different centres and you might just say that – even though I am not the biological father – I am their father because I take care of them, protect them from abusers, see that they get therapy. I make sure that they go to school, that they are clothed, that they are fed, that they have good friends, and that there is a happy family atmosphere where they get affirmation, support, and feeling of belonging, self-esteem and dignity. This is the work of a father: to give them a meaning and a purpose for their life. There are many biological fathers who end up abandoning all their kids. I think we have to redefine fatherhood. Many of my paternal instincts are quite satisfied looking after all these kids. The real challenge for a father is being faithful and true to them – and to the mother of your children, and it is here that most fathers fail. They even abuse their own kids.
Should the Church change its attitude towards celibacy?
There is a huge movement, within the Church itself, to make celibacy optional. It is not on the front pages of the newspapers, but this has been debated for many, many years in the Vatican. The Church has had married clergy in the past. The Catholic Church has married clergy right now. Many of the Anglican priests, who left the Anglican Church, and came over to the Roman Catholic Church, brought their wives and children with them. So, it is only a matter of time. It is coming and it has to – because the number of ordained clergy nowadays is dropping drastically. It is no great loss either because we have many wonderful lay people, Christians, who are giving one year or two years of their lives to go on missions, to scarify themselves, in refugee camps, on the frontline, on medical missions. Taking great risks. These are non-ordained people who are doing all this work. In other words, redefining the role of the priesthood is very important. There is no need for a total life of celibacy in order to do so much good.
Is celibacy difficult for you?
Not really. Look, people have appetites of every kind. There are people who have an appetite for gambling, for drink, an appetite for sex. Any appetite that gets control over the person makes them lose their freedom, their self-control, their self-discipline. Everything has to be kept within a balance. There is no point in focusing on the suspension or the sublimation of the energies. I have had to redirect all of these energies and efforts into combating the evils that uncontrolled and undisciplined sexual appetites bring about in this world, which is the exploitation and abuse of women and children.
You are talking about the extreme negatives of sexual desire.
Yes, and I am fighting against it. I have no loss with being celibate. I am so absorbed in this battle and struggle for justice, I don’t have time to fall in love. I have had several attractions over the years. Several times I came to rethink my calling and pondered if I should quit, like some have. They felt that they were called to the married life and they left the priesthood. Best of luck to all of those. Me? I never got to that point. I just kept going, building PREDA, building the work. There is only 24 hours in a day, so there is no time to get involved because I know I can’t have both, so I made a choice. I had to put romance aside. I write songs and in one of them I wrote the line, ‘Love is giving and not taking.’ It is about someone who felt exploited and made this life-choice of celibacy and went out to help others, and show a kind of love that is not for self-satisfaction. That’s a high in itself.
But did you get frustrated?
Celibacy never bothered me. When younger, our generation was not exposed to the Internet or sex magazines. When we, as teenagers, wanted to look at what we thought was ‘pornography’, we would go and look at these catalogues where you see women wearing underwear (laughs). There was never any of this sexual stimulation through media and commercial advertising that you get now. You may be asking these kind of questions because you have grown up in a society that is sex obsessed, and you might think that everybody must be obsessed with sex. People might say of a person choosing celibacy, ‘How can you live like that?’ Well, I say that humans don’t need to satisfy every need. Other people say to me, ‘I can’t live without sex. What’s in it for you?’ I answer, ‘Hey, it is a unique experience, but you don’t know it because you have never been there.’
What would you say to the argument that celibacy is fundamentally unnatural?
As I said before, it is supernatural for some. Everyone has free choice. I choose my way to live, everyone can choose their way. They say true celibacy is the greatest manly strength of all, the Kung Fu masters were all celebrate and proud of it. The famous Kung Fu Monks of Sholin temple found strength of spirit, mind and heart in the discipline of celibacy and being in control of all desire and appetites. There is a spiritual strength and experience, interior enlightenment, be found by meditation and self-discipline. Celibacy is one of the stepping stones to this.
Have you ever fallen in love?
Yes, of course. How can you counsel or help anybody if you haven’t. I knew a beautiful lady friend once, Kimberly, who I was very, very attracted to. I think I was really in love, but how can you tell these days? We met at conferences and meetings. I had to make a big decision. She was in the UN and I went to New York as part of my journeys but I turned back (laughs). I found myself planning to go there and maybe get involved emotionally. I was being carried by my feeling – and not my head – but I turned back. I said, ‘I can’t do both. I have to choose my mission or married life. But don’t play around with both.’ Many people make the wrong decision; they are attracted, fall in love, it is only a natural desire, but they do have another mission. You can’t really serve both masters, as they say. You can’t have a wife and family secretly, and then try to serve the mission. Quit one or the other and be faithful and honest with one’s self and community.
Did Kimberly love you?
I think so. When people realise that they may have something in common, that they would share each other’s lives, and with that happiness seems a possibility, then they say they are ‘in love’, but it is only the attraction – the first step. There is more to ‘being in love’ than liking each other. It is always a challenge. Every relationship is a challenge. I am the kind of person who would want to clarify everything and look at the consequences of a decision. Not rushing into things, not making stupid moves, because you could then get compromised and lose your integrity.
So how close did you come to leaving the priesthood?
I was almost 30 years old at that stage, so it was a very serious decision. I asked those questions: do I want to get married and have children? But you have to always think of the consequences before throwing yourself into a relationship. I didn’t want to give up all my friends and leave behind those who had scarified themselves in the fight for human rights. I was building a strong organisation in the Philippines, so it would have been very selfish for me to abandon all that and for me to go and satisfy my human desires.
If priests were able to marry, would you have considered doing so?
Of course I would have. It is a fullness of life as well. It is another great aspect of life. Maybe some day the Church will get around to allowing married clergy. It does no harm to the Anglican Church, but it is just one of these historical things.
Had you experienced an intimate relationship with a woman before going into the priesthood?
No. At that age I was occupied with understanding myself and the world around me, and trying to find what I would do with my life – there were not too many choices. Most of us were thinking of migrating, not having a serious relationship. I was barely 20 years old and it was not the tradition, or custom, or practice, in 1963 to have intimate relationships at that age. We were looking for adventure, travel, work.
Do you regret never having that experience?
Look, we are talking about 1962. I grew up in a very sheltered environment with strict religious moral codes. So there was no kind of relationship beyond going to a weekly dance down in the parish hall, or going to the movies. That was it. The modern world has changed a lot. It is obsessed with sex. Commercial businesses are obsessed with manipulating young people by using sex-drive and peer group pressure to sell products. Even fashion is so twisted that models are killing themselves to look skinny. Young people are really manipulated and are led astray by all the fads and fantasies of the modern commercial world.
You knew Bishop Casey. He came and visited you back in 1992 before the controversy with Anne Murphy and his love child came out. Were you surprised that he had a child?
No, not really. You must face reality in the world today. It was over-hyped. It is important, when you are a public figure, to realise that you will be a person of interest to the media. I don’t really know the case, I wasn’t even living here at that time. Married people are tempted to have relationships outside of their vows of marriage. So if a priest or a bishop falls in love, or is attracted to someone, he is unfaithful to his vows – so what is the great shock in that? I mean, every day I get married couples coming to me because they are trying to fix up the fact that they were unfaithful to each other. What is new about unfaithfulness? It happens a million times a day between married people and who is making an interview with them? It is a reality that bishops or priests are unfaithful too. We just have to have compassion and have understanding.
Bishop of Killaloe, Dr Willie White, recently stated that perhaps divorce is not a bad thing. Should the Church relax its views on divorce?
You have a moral issue here and a legal one that the church lawyers are only competent to handle. We all know that sometimes a relationship is incompatible. Many annulments are given in the Church because it becomes so obvious when you investigate the relationship ­that it has never been a Christian marriage in the first place. Christian marriage is a very serious thing. Church counsellors have been negligent perhaps in not advising couples not to get married, and they go into marriages based on the wrong reasons: she might be pregnant or it might be a relationship that is based on human needs to satisfy each other sexually and emotionally. But that is not the basis of Christian marriage. If you are talking about a true Christian married relationship – a spiritual relationship, based on values, trust, total commitment and honesty – then you are talking about something completely different, which is so strong that they can protect their children. Many of these troubled marriages are marriages of great mistakes and they are going to damage the children, so maybe what the Bishop is saying there is that it is better to dissolve a troubled marriage that is not a real true Christian marriage in the first place, rather than insisting the relationship continues because it would do more harm to each other and bring the hurt and pain and suffering to children. Maybe then it is better for the Church to find a just and real solution. I am not a Canon lawyer and I can’t answer all those legal questions but, humanly speaking, the guiding principle is a life based on justice, truth and faithfulness, and that brings happiness – a relationship where no harm is done.
Should divorce be legally made available? You say yes to divorce at the discretion of the Church, but should people be able to opt for divorce themselves?
I am not a theologian. Better ask that of a Canon lawyer.
Should the Church be more liberal in its attitudes towards abortion?
In my opinion, that is non-negotiable. Think of the father and the wife is having his child, and she decides, ‘I want to have an abortion’. Does he not have a right to see that the baby will be born? It’s equally his as it is hers. Life must be preserved at all times. This is the guiding principle.
What if a woman is raped? Should she be able to choose an abortion?
Under the circumstances, let’s face it, when you look at the child in the womb, it is a human person. I am not going to ever, ever tolerate killing the unborn. There are many other options that preserve life.
What sanctions should happen if a raped woman decides to abort the seed of a rapist?
That’s better answered by a church theologian.
Should the Church be more liberal in its attitudes towards homosexuality?
Any relationship should be supported. You have to give compassion and understanding to people in every human relationship. It is not for us to get up and be moral judgers. Gay people living together have their own integrity and they have their own virtue. They have their own way of life – it is their choice. We must respect the free choice of consenting adults. We cannot just come in and impose an external law and regulation, or intolerant attitude on anybody.
Should same sex marriages be allowed?
I don’t know what the law is in Ireland.
What about contraceptives? Should the Church encourage their usage?
They should be more open to review and consider anything that will prevent STDs, particularly Aids. People are dying because they are ignorant or they just can’t control themselves. There is a greater goodness to be sought here and that is the preservation of life. We are always working to encourage people that, if they cannot practise self-denial, self-control, abstinence, certainly don’t go out and infect somebody with HIV/Aids and cause their death. Preventing the spread of Aids is an absolute moral duty. It is a prime duty to prevent harm, suffering and death. Hopefully, the Church will consider it in a moral review that will protect life. I believe they are open to that.
You say contraceptives should be allowed in the fight against Aids, but in modern society sex does happen outside of marriage, so do you think that the Church should encourage the use of condoms to prevent STDs and unwanted pregnancies in a place like Ireland?
I answered this already.
Should women be able to become priests?
Personally, I have no objections whatsoever. In my experience, I have many friends who are in the Anglican communities and they have women priests, and it is working very well. I know the Catholic Church won’t get around to this for some time. But if they would allow women to be priests it would be a good thing. Why not?
If women can’t be priests, surely this is anti-feminist or even misogynist?
No, it is not because they are anti-women and so on. Two thousand years ago, Jesus of Nazareth was revolutionary and he died for his beliefs, and one of his beliefs was individual rights for every person, including women. Remember, back then, it was unthinkable for a Rabbi in the Jewish religion to walk around with a woman. Women weren’t even allowed inside a Synagogue. The Church today has really held up great, empowered women as role models. Even Mary, the mother of Jesus, is a very empowered figure in the world today. The Church has not always sidelined women but there is much, much more that must and can be done, to see that equality is established. Church leaders need to be more open in allowing women to have a greater role, and decision-making equality, in the life and the management of church affairs. Not to do so is to lose and deprive others of their wisdom, commitment, spiritual strength and inspiration.
You say women are being empowered by the Church. How was Mary an empowered role model?
She was a poor peasant girl, struggled with pregnancy before marriage, endured incredible hardship, and is venerated by Christians through 2000 years as the mother of Jesus, Son of God. She has been an inspiration to all, as one that can intercede and bring about healing to millions over the centuries. We see Mother Theresa imitating her too, as do millions. What more empowerment does one need in this world or the next?
Were Mary and Joseph, with Jesus, a good example of the family unit? Do you think Jesus had brothers and sisters?
This is not important, whether he had or did not have (siblings). That’s a matter of interpretation of scripture. What is important is to know and believe that when Jesus died on the cross, his mother was there in solidarity and so would have been Joseph. It is presumed he died. But there you see a family that stayed together loving and supporting each other. If only half the families that separate and are dysfunctional today had a fraction of that solidarity, they would have survived, and if we all had it, there would be much less suffering and pain in the world. We have a lot to learn from the example of the family from Nazareth.
You went out to Asia as a missionary priest –­ a place with a shortage of priests. Ironically, priests from developing countries could come to Ireland in the future simply because we have less and less priests being ordained here?
It is not ironic, it is a practise that we actually have cross-cultural sharing. Right now, it is very important that foreign nationals want to integrate in Ireland, but not forget where they came from. Therefore they have Philippine priests actually coming to Ireland to celebrate mass and maintain the traditional religious practise. And we too can go abroad on special missions. There is no contradiction. The Columban Missionary Society, of which I am a member, has a strong lay missionary programme and they go to Ireland and the go out from Ireland. There is this cross-cultural relationship. Saint Patrick was a migrant, a slave discriminated against, yet he came back as a missionary.
During the past 20 years, there has been a litany of sex and abuse scandals involving the Catholic church in Ireland. As all these stories emerged, how did you, as a priest crusading against abuse to children in a foreign land, feel about what was happening at home?
The point is this: you are asking that because I am a member of the priesthood. Yes, many clergy have committed terrible crimes against children, and justice must be done swiftly, as it must be done to any other member of society. Especially those who have moral ascendancy over minors, youth and children. When it is members of the clergy, I feel a special anger because they have violated that special trust and taken advantage of their position. In my book, Passion And Power, I described that form of physical and psychological abuse that I suffered in school. It marks you for life; it made me come out fighting for justice, but it can turn others to come out fighting against society, the community and turning to violence. I observe society daily, and in my work I see prominent, ‘respectable’ members of society abusing children. The statistics show that a majority of sex child abusers are actually fathers with two to three children. We have 35 cases in court against child abusers – none are clergy. 70% of perverts and paedophiles are married people. In fact, in my daily work I come across three-year-olds being raped by their own fathers. When teachers or swimming instructors or clergy do it, it becomes more heinous, you might say. They are all classified the same because they have moral ascendancy over the child. The worst of all is the father who has moral ascendancy and power and control over their own children and they abuse their authority and power to satisfy their perverted sexual desires. Of course I have the same feeling, the same anger for anybody who abuses a child.
But were you embarrassed by these revelations of abuse administered by clergy in Ireland?
No, I am not embarrassed whatsoever, I am just angry. None of the clergy should be embarrassed, they should be angry, as was Jesus when he saw injustice. Abusers should be dealt with without delay because, not only are they damaging the lives of children, but they are damaging the Church. One case of a member of the clergy abusing children takes all the headlines away from the Church’s good work. But, at the same time, there are thousands of good people in the Church. Clergy, who are suffering and giving up their lives for human rights, are going to be tarred with the same brush.
There have been Bishops found attempting to cover up for priests accused of abusing children.
These guys who cover this up, or try to justify any kind of abuse, should be punished. I would be more demanding of the Church authorities to be ever so more stringent – as I think they are trying to be – and to put an end to any kind of cover-up. Not only does the clergy cover up sex abuse – I hope that it is all in the past and that the new guidelines are implemented – but the families who know their father is abusing also cover up because of the shame they will feel, if it goes public. And they turn the other way – so when you say there is cover up, there is cover-up in every family. Everybody who abuses children has to be called to account. Some people say, ‘We must have forgiveness’. No – justice first. Forgiveness will follow on justice. If they are remorseful they can be forgiven behind bars.
Have you ever questioned God’s existence?
We all go through that. You are not an intelligent thinking person if you don’t question it. Faith has to be built on reason and we are reasonable people but, I am sad to say, you wouldn’t think it because of the way we treat the planet. It is a shocking thing to think that people with intelligence do not question their own lives, their own existence, their own place in the entire creation. But being reasonable, those of us who do use our brains and think about the meaning and the purpose of life and the universe – that is a good thing: to pose that question and seek the truth and ask, ‘Is there something beyond ourselves?’ I like to see God as eternal goodness.
Do you think God can be vengeful?
The Old Testament image of the vengeful God was replaced by the compassion and love of Jesus of Nazareth. As the son of God, he brought us into a relationship with the reality of an understanding and forgiving father and a God of love and justice. God is present as eternal goodness, and we can see God in people who are working unselfishly helping the downtrodden. That is the God of love as revealed through Jesus Christ. There is no place for vengeance in true Christianity.
Is there a hell?
I think people make their own hell on earth when they abandon respect for other people, exploit and abuse them and turn to vice and violence. We can have heaven on earth if we respect the rights of all, work for justice, an end to war, and try to have dignity and equality for everyone.
PREDA’s website is www.preda.org. Fr Shay Cullen’s autobiography, Passion And Power, is available now, priced €12.99.