"I have seen what I think might have been a Romanian lady selling The Big Issues . . ."

The most high profile organisation in opposition to the integration of immigrants into Irish society has been the Cork-based Immigration Control Platform led by Clonakilty primary schoolteacher Aine Ni Chsnaill. Hot Press spoke to the woman who is regarded as a bigot by some, and the instigator of a valuable debate by others.

What is your main concern about the refugee situation?

I suppose our main concern would be that, seeing how it has manifested itself in other European countries where refugee numbers ballooned, and the degree to which it appears the asylum process has been abused as an immigration stratagem in other countries, we would simply want Ireland and the Irish government to not let us go down that same road. The numbers may have gone down somewhat in those countries now because you have this phrase "Fortress Europe", where they've started to clamp down, but I think quite a few of those countries have bitten off more than they can chew. I'm thinking particularly of Sweden, a country which perceives itself as very liberal, and from what I read in the press, they have found that they're not happy with the situation they have brought upon themselves.

Would the platform not accept that, because so many Irish people have emigrated to countries all around the world in the past, we now have an obligation to repay that debt?

Firstly, the short answer to that is "No". The Platform wouldn't be unreasonable and say absolutely "No" to all asylum-seekers, but essentially the argument that you put forward there, which one hears so often, we would see that as being absolutely without any great foundation at all. I usually answer that one by saying, "We went essentially to the New World in America and Australia, and Ireland is not the New World, it's an entirely other thing." Even if you were to take the American-Irish situation and look upon it as a charity - and I wouldn't - at least one might say that we owe America or Australia, but certainly you wouldn't make an argument out of it that we owe Somalia or Zaire or Romania.

But mightn't Ireland might actually benefit from absorbing other cultures? We seem happy enough to accept a multicultural national soccer team.

Oh, this nonsense! Look, all cultures at all times take from others, taste of others, adapt aspects of others. It's good that you get new elements into a culture - this will happen in a thousand ways in life, but is a most specious argument to bring into immigration. People will taste other cultures through student exchanges, cultural exchanges and travel. Immigration policy is an entirely other thing.

A spokesperson for the Irish Refugee Council is of the opinion that, "The Immigration Control Platform seem to have a very restrictive view of refugee protection. They basically say 'Oh no, it's only Salman Rushdie we can protect, famous people, not the ordinary people.'" Would you care to comment on that?

To imply that we would be as minimalist as that is unfair to our organisation. I mean, Salman Rushdie is very much a one-off.

Would you be in favour of these people at least working to support themselves, taking the strain off the Social Welfare system?

I wouldn't be in favour of allowing people to work while they are in the asylum-seeking process, because there's nothing that embeds people in society like having a job. As sociologists say, it's not just about money. You would have all this brouhaha then when people would actually be refused, with people saying, "Oh, don't deport so-and-so." I was most pleased to find that those people at the Ennis meeting agreed with me, I thought they might be more worried about the money and say, "Oh look, let them work," but I don't remember any dissent.

Amnesty International and The Irish Refugee Council are seeking the formation of an independent body to deal with the asylum-seekers' applications. Have you any opinion about that?

I would be very surprised if our organisation would be asking for that. I think we would be very happy to leave things with the Department Of Justice as they are.

How do you respond to reports of black Irish nationals being singled out for questioning by Irish immigration authorities at various airports, bus terminals and ports?

I have no objections to anybody being challenged so long as the challenge is polite and proper. I'd like to think that if I were a black Irish person, I'd be as anxious as anyone else to control illegal immigration, and there's nothing we can do about the fact that the majority of Irish people are white. Unless you're going to stop everybody, you're inevitably going to stop those who give some indication that they are more likely (to be illegal immigrants), it's what I call an actuarial exercise. My name is in Irish, Aine Nm Chsnaill, and I have heard of people with their names in Irish being subjected to extra checks at the British side. There's probably a higher proportion of those with their names in Gaelic who would be of a Republican bent. I'd be quite the opposite myself, but the point I'm making is that, if I found I was subjected to an extra check in Britain because my name was in Irish, I hope that I would see it as something they had to do in the fight against terrorism and I wouldn't see it in a personal way, provided it was done politely and properly. The same applies here.

Have you ever been harassed by refugees begging or bartering on the streets of Dublin?

I'm not that frequently in Dublin. I have seen what I think might've been a Romanian lady selling The Big Issues, but I haven't experienced what you speak of, no.

To what degree does the refugee problem impinge on you in Clonakilty?

Well firstly, it wouldn't intrude on us in Clonakilty at this point, but I sometimes feel that people like you, when they phrase a question like that, seem to think that Dublin belongs to the Dubliners. All of Ireland belongs to the Dubliners, it's my capital city, and it's mine as much as yours. And this is obviously about the future of our entire country, so I fin County Cork have nothing to do with the rest of the country. We're a very small country, it belongs to all of us.

So what about the people who are refused asylum in this country?

Well, the whole process of asylum is intended by the Geneva convention and all countries to go as follows: You examine the application fairly and as speedily as is consistent with fairness, you give asylum if they meet the criteria, and you deport them to their own country if they don't. That is how it is supposed to work. Maire Geoghegan-Quinn wrote a few Saturdays ago in The Irish Times, and she reminded us - I didn't need reminding, but a lot of people need reminding - that the United Nations High Commission itself would, I think I can say, wish that rejected asylum seekers are deported, because in many countries where they remain on illegally, there's a build up, and a backlash against the entire asylum process.